Creating Large symbols + Pick & Place Center
JohnsonMiller , 06-24-2016, 03:00 AM
Hi Guys,
Thank you for time and effort for helpful comments,
I do have two questions:
1) First is regarding how to generate components library. The AD's library is not complete and probably we can not expect it. Situation is like this that new high pin-count device is release, let's assume an FPGA with 1000+ pin, and you need to generate a schematic library. The manufacturer provides "pin name/ pin location/ pin type/ etc." in the a text or excel form. How we can proceed from this point? Need to mention that pin count is high and we require manual editing as low as possible.
2) Second question is related to pick&place process, which rules we should obey to make our design ready for automatic assembly and mounting? It looks that component center plays a crucial role in this regard.
Is there any video or training for this subject? Let's make this question general, which steps and action is needed to be done after finishing PCB design?
Thank you,
Thank you for time and effort for helpful comments,
I do have two questions:
1) First is regarding how to generate components library. The AD's library is not complete and probably we can not expect it. Situation is like this that new high pin-count device is release, let's assume an FPGA with 1000+ pin, and you need to generate a schematic library. The manufacturer provides "pin name/ pin location/ pin type/ etc." in the a text or excel form. How we can proceed from this point? Need to mention that pin count is high and we require manual editing as low as possible.
2) Second question is related to pick&place process, which rules we should obey to make our design ready for automatic assembly and mounting? It looks that component center plays a crucial role in this regard.
Is there any video or training for this subject? Let's make this question general, which steps and action is needed to be done after finishing PCB design?
Thank you,
koreshx , 06-24-2016, 04:17 AM
Hello JohnsonMiller. I created libriary for component with BGA347 two weeks ago and It's was hell of a job. I do not want to do it again.
If you don't find solution to export data from excel/txt I suggest to write script for this task. I have a little experience in altium scripting (I placed very large led matrix) so it's interesting for me. Lets discuss data format and do it
But I hope there is a standard solution and someone might point to it.
About pick&place generation. File/Assembley Output/Generate pick& place file. I just send this file with gerbers. I think it is better to duscuss it with your assembly line engeneer.
If you don't find solution to export data from excel/txt I suggest to write script for this task. I have a little experience in altium scripting (I placed very large led matrix) so it's interesting for me. Lets discuss data format and do it
But I hope there is a standard solution and someone might point to it.About pick&place generation. File/Assembley Output/Generate pick& place file. I just send this file with gerbers. I think it is better to duscuss it with your assembly line engeneer.
JohnsonMiller , 06-24-2016, 05:40 AM
Manual component library creation and even scripting for it, does not make sense there must be a clean and trust able method.
My question is not how to generate pick&place data, question is what we should take care to make design compatible with machines; for example if you make a footprint, there must be a relation between center in the package and component center in PCB as well as assumed center in the machines vision system, unless they will charge you for placement adjustment, and of course a delay in production.
My question is not how to generate pick&place data, question is what we should take care to make design compatible with machines; for example if you make a footprint, there must be a relation between center in the package and component center in PCB as well as assumed center in the machines vision system, unless they will charge you for placement adjustment, and of course a delay in production.
robertferanec , 06-24-2016, 07:39 AM
@JohnsonMiller I moved your question to a different topic.
1) Creating symbols for large component
- Normally, for complicated components you can download a reference schematic and import the symbol
- You can import pin names. I played with that some time ago, but I don't use it. Have a look here: http://www.altium.com/files/pdfs/smartgridtools.pdf
2) Normally for SMT components I set the Origin to by in center of the component (that is the point where pick & place machine will pick up the component). I read, that sometimes you may want to place this point into "Center of Component Gravity", but I have never had problems with setting it up to the center. I guess, in assembly house they can adjust the pick & place position if they need. For through hole components, I normally set it to pin 1.
1) Creating symbols for large component
- Normally, for complicated components you can download a reference schematic and import the symbol
- You can import pin names. I played with that some time ago, but I don't use it. Have a look here: http://www.altium.com/files/pdfs/smartgridtools.pdf
Smart Grid Insert to create new pins
The Smart Grid tools are available in all the Altium Designer List panels. To use Smart Grid Insert to create pins based on spreadsheet data, first create a new component in a library, then open the SchLib List panel (Shift+F12), and you’re ready to go.
Select and copy the required cells in your spreadsheet. Don’t worry if there are columns in the selection that you don’t need, the Smart Grid tools can ignore these.
Switch back to Altium Designer, rightÂclick in the SchLib List panel and select Smart Grid Insert from the menu. The Smart Grid Insert dialog will open.
The Smart Grid dialog has two regions. The upper region shows the data that is currently on the Windows clipboard, we’ll call that the source data. The lower region is the objects that are going to be created, which we’ll call the created objects. If your source data includes a header row Altium Designer will attempt to automatically identify the object kind, then build a list of created objects. A point to keep in mind, before you map columns the list of created objects will have the properties of the current Altium Designer default pin object. So for example, if you wanted all the pins placed at 180 degrees with a length of 20, then set the default values in Altium Designer before starting the smart grid process. That way you don’t need to worry about adding those settings into the spreadsheet, or editing them in Altium Designer after the creation process. Not sure how to set the defaults? Just select Place » Pin from the menus, then before you place a pin press Tab to edit the default values, then place and delete that one pin.
The Smart Grid tools are available in all the Altium Designer List panels. To use Smart Grid Insert to create pins based on spreadsheet data, first create a new component in a library, then open the SchLib List panel (Shift+F12), and you’re ready to go.
Select and copy the required cells in your spreadsheet. Don’t worry if there are columns in the selection that you don’t need, the Smart Grid tools can ignore these.
Switch back to Altium Designer, rightÂclick in the SchLib List panel and select Smart Grid Insert from the menu. The Smart Grid Insert dialog will open.
The Smart Grid dialog has two regions. The upper region shows the data that is currently on the Windows clipboard, we’ll call that the source data. The lower region is the objects that are going to be created, which we’ll call the created objects. If your source data includes a header row Altium Designer will attempt to automatically identify the object kind, then build a list of created objects. A point to keep in mind, before you map columns the list of created objects will have the properties of the current Altium Designer default pin object. So for example, if you wanted all the pins placed at 180 degrees with a length of 20, then set the default values in Altium Designer before starting the smart grid process. That way you don’t need to worry about adding those settings into the spreadsheet, or editing them in Altium Designer after the creation process. Not sure how to set the defaults? Just select Place » Pin from the menus, then before you place a pin press Tab to edit the default values, then place and delete that one pin.
nachodizz990 , 07-19-2016, 05:57 PM
I Have a similar problem.
I have a headache because i´m creating my own altium libraries for BGA 672 packages (By hand..) because Altera provides libraries for allegro but i can´t convert it to altium schematic library.
Anyobody solved a similar problem?
I have a headache because i´m creating my own altium libraries for BGA 672 packages (By hand..) because Altera provides libraries for allegro but i can´t convert it to altium schematic library.
Anyobody solved a similar problem?
robertferanec , 07-21-2016, 08:20 PM
@nachodizz990 could you attach the library or reference board? I can try to convert it.
Comments:
nachodizz990, 07-21-2016, 08:58 PM
Guest thank you so much!! Access Deniedhttps://www.altera.com/support/support-resources/download/board-layout-test/pcb/pcb-cadence.htmlI need The Cyclone V SE and SX .OLB ported to altium There are a lot of OLB so try to convert one and i will convert the restThere are at the bottom on the page, at the beginning there are footprints too
robertferanec , 07-30-2016, 05:57 PM
Hi @nachodizz990. Hmm, I tried to convert the library, but I was not able to do it. I tried different computers with different Altium versions. I asked some of my friends, but I do not know anyone with the latest Allegro, in case the olb version is the problem. However, if you have the right versions of software, it looks like it should be possible: http://www.edaboard.com/thread189695.html
BTW: I didn't try, but you may be able to find the devices in Altium Vaults or extensions: http://www.altium.com/products/exten...tera-cyclone-v
The OLB files are generated using Cadence PCB tool version 16.3. It is compatible with Cadence tool v16.2 and newer."
nachodizz990 , 08-01-2016, 07:03 PM
@robertferanec thank you so much for trying it, it doesnt matter, i only have to select between 3 or 4 parts and i will build the components by hand (reviewing the pins 3 or four times each one just in case)
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